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Windows Phone 7の開発環境が無料なんて嘘にだまされちゃダメです!

誰も触れていないようですが、はっきり書かせていただきます。

Windows Phone 7の開発環境は無料だとMicrosoftは盛んに宣伝しています。

確かに、Visual Studio 2010 Express for Windows Phoneは無償提供されていますがこれだけでは実機が手元にあったとしても実機で動かすことはできません。

たとえ自分の購入した自分だけで使うようなアプリの場合でも、年額9800円でAppHub(AppHub自体は日本語化されています)に開発者登録を行い、英語のやり取りをGeoTrustと行って1か月近くかかってようやく実機に転送するための証明書がもらえるのです。

たとえ、公開するつもりがない場合でも自分の手持ちの実機でしか使わなかったとしても9800円と英語という日本人にとってはとてつもない壁を乗りこねなければ何もできないのです(しかも1年契約の12分の1は無意味に過ぎます)。

これで本当に「Windows Phone 7の開発環境は無料だ」といえるのでしょうか。

私は言えないと思います。

GeoTrustへの登録がなくても開発機登録した3台にはアプリが転送できるようにしてほしいです。

これではアプリ開発ができないガラケーと同じだと思います。

 

投稿日時 : 2010年12月6日 11:25

Feedback

# re: Windows Phone 7の開発環境が無料なんて嘘にだまされちゃダメです! 2010/12/06 12:25 うつせみ(虚蝉)

たしかにこの壁はでかいような気がします。
英語の壁が取り払われても金額もありますし。
無料アプリが減りそうな状態ですね。

せめて開発機にだけでも入れられたり、「証明書がないですよ」的なエラーだけにするとか。

# re: Windows Phone 7の開発環境が無料なんて嘘にだまされちゃダメです! 2010/12/06 12:34 かたぎり

んー、つまり、

開発環境は無料
作ったプログラムをエミュレーター上で動かしても無料
実機で動かすことは有料

てことなのですね?

確かに、開発環境は無料、だわねぇ、日本語として間違ってないと思う。
アプリケーション開発は有料だけど。

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# re: Windows Phone 7の開発環境が無料なんて嘘にだまされちゃダメです! 2010/12/06 14:27 kogetsu

お金がかかるのはマーケットプレース側の問題なので間違ってなくないですか?
いままでVisualstudioは有料だったんだし、それってたぶん9800円より高かったですよね。

みんなわかってるからいちいち言わないだけじゃ。。。

# re: Windows Phone 7の開発環境が無料なんて嘘にだまされちゃダメです! 2010/12/06 15:06 はつね

自分が買った自分のWindowsPhone7で自分で作ったアプリを動かすのになぜマーケットプレイスが必要なのが間違えていないって言えるのかが不思議です。

公開するにはマーケットプレイス通してだけれど手元の実機には関係ないだろうと思うのが普通かと。
もう、登録されちゃっているので関係ないか、これから登録するので知らないかのどちらかだと思います。

# re: Windows Phone 7の開発環境が無料なんて嘘にだまされちゃダメです! 2010/12/06 17:23 CH3COOH(酢酸)

実機デバッグが出来ないとしても、Windows Phone 7アプリケーションは、
間違いなく開発環境もアプリケーションの開発を行うのも全て無償で出来ますよ。
(VB.NETの開発は、製品版のVS2010が必要なので有償ですけどw)

しかし、GeoTrustが、今後の日本でのWindows Phone 7の普及の障害になるのは間違いないですね。
TL上でまともに手続きをされた話を聞いた事が無いです。
この辺り改善してもらう為にはどうしたら良いんでしょうね。越川さんに伝えてみましょうか。

Windows Marketplace for Mobileの時代は、店長イトーという方が居て、
Twitter、Windows Mobile開発者事務局の二つの窓口でサポートしてくれていたのですが、
残念ながら退社されてしまって、MSのサポートは現状受けられない状態になっていると思います。

# re: Windows Phone 7の開発環境が無料なんて嘘にだまされちゃダメです! 2010/12/06 17:35 kogetsu

開発環境は無償だから正しいじゃないですか。。。
開発は無料、実機で動作させるためには有料。で、宣伝として無料の部分を中心に宣伝するってのは別に普通のことだと思うけど。。。そんなに変なことなのかしら。

hatsuneさんが気に入るかどうかは別の話では?
ちなみにマーケットプレースに無料アプリ出すのに1本単位でお金がかかるので年間9800円よりもお金かかっちゃいますね:-)

# re: Windows Phone 7の開発環境が無料なんて嘘にだまされちゃダメです! 2010/12/06 17:37 CH3COOH(酢酸)

> 公開するにはマーケットプレイス通してだけれど手元の実機には関係ないだろうと思うのが普通かと。

これは違います。少なくともいまどきのスマートフォンでは、
実機転送するのにお金が掛かるのが普通と思った方が良いです。

iPhoneで、実機デバッグするのもApp Storeにリリースするのにも
iOS Developer Programに加入する必要があるのと一緒で、BlackBerryもしかり。
(気軽に実機転送出来る、AndroidやWindows Mobileが例外かも?)

ごめんなさい、WebOSとかは判りません。


そういえば、iOS Developer Programのやつは必ず契約に失敗しますけど、
サポートの対応が早いし、実機でバッグまでの筋道がスムーズですね。
やはりWP7開発に悪い印象を与えてるのは、GeoTrust・・・

# re: Windows Phone 7の開発環境が無料なんて嘘にだまされちゃダメです! 2010/12/06 18:18 はつね

> なくともいまどきのスマートフォン実機転送するのにお金が掛かるのが普通

それはある意味、カルテルみたいなもので決して利用者側の視点ではないと思います。
なぜ、有識者であろうkogetsuさんやCH3COOHさんがそんな現状に満足しているのかが分かりません。満足しているとかではなく状況を説明しているだけだとしたらすいません。

本当にこんな状況が正しいと思いますか?
開発者が実機を購入するというのは開発環境の一部として実機検証が必要だからではないのですか?
センサー類やGPSを使った開発がWindows Phone for Developer Toolsでできるんですか?
もしかしたら、Windows PhoneのDev Phone版とかがあってそういったのを入手できる人はAppHub登録しなくても実機デバッグできる!とかいう状況でもないと思うんですが。


なお、マーケットプレイス(一応、Windows Phoneのを念頭に置いています)は確か5本までだったら無料アプリは審査料無料ですよ>kogetsuさん

# re: Windows Phone 7の開発環境が無料なんて嘘にだまされちゃダメです! 2010/12/06 19:06 kogetsu

誤解があるようなので一応。
僕が気にしているのは、開発環境が無料というのは別に間違ってないし、
別にMSは嘘言ってるわけじゃないよね。というところです。

hatsuneさんが言ってる、実機転送にお金がかかるのがおかしい。という主張はそれとは別の話じゃないの?と疑問に思ったわけですね。
別に僕が不利益をこうむるわけではないのでどうでもいいのですが、
hatsuneさんの書き方だと自分が嫌なことを別の理由つけて文句言ってるように見えてしまったので。
そのへんはっきりさせたほうがいいんじゃないの?と思ってコメントしました。

ちなみに僕はどっちでもいい派です。1万円だし、それを仕事にするならお安いんじゃないの?くらいすね。
趣味と考えても年間1万円はそんなに高くないだろうし。まあもちろん無料のほうがいいですけど。

それよりも間口を広げる目的としては、開発環境が無料で提供されるほうがメリットが大きいと思ってます。
VSが高くて買えない。。。と思ってて勉強もできなかった人が少なくとも実機動作させる手前のところまで作れるわけだし。

# re: Windows Phone 7の開発環境が無料なんて嘘にだまされちゃダメです! 2010/12/06 19:49 はつね

まず意見の相違があるのが、実機テストを開発の一部だと考えるか
否かの違いですね。
私としては開発として考えた時、テストなしで開発しましたと言え
るか?という立場です。実機使ってこそ見えてくる部分もあります
し、開発とは実稼働環境でのテストまで含めたものだと思うから
です。

また、実機で動かせずにやっていてたのしいの?とかも思います。
それに間口を広げるなら開発ツールだけじゃダメだと思います。
ハードが絡むなら動かしてこそ広がりがあると思います。


# re: Windows Phone 7の開発環境が無料なんて嘘にだまされちゃダメです! 2010/12/07 0:55 まりも

本当に掛け値なしに無料であるというのなら、
論理的にいえばホームレスの人が明日から始めることもできるはずです。

が実際にはそんなことはない。
パソコンはいりますし、
ネットにつなげる必要はありますし、
電気代もいります。

Visual Studioをまともに動かすには、
ネットさえできればいいというパソコンじゃ足りませんから、
もっと高いパソコンを買うだけののお金もいる。


が。
誰もそこまでタダだとは思ってませんよね。

ということで厳密に掛け値なしに無料だとはだれも思ってないのではないですかね。
無料というのは厳密に無料という意味ではなく、
宣伝文句としての無料、と解釈するのが妥当でしょう。

だから、この場合に何も注釈や前提条件を付けずに、
無料というのが嘘かどうか、という話をするならば、
詐欺とか誇大広告とかで訴えて勝てる状況じゃなければ、
無料は嘘じゃないという判断ができるんじゃないですかね。


とはいえこれは前提条件が何もなしに、
という話でのことです。

たとえば。

ただでさえiPhoneやAndroidにかなり先行されて、
優秀な開発者を集めなければならないのに、
年間一万円+実機代なんて高い参入障壁をつけたんじゃ負けるに決まっているではないか。
WP7には期待しているのにそんな迷走してもらったら困る。

とかいう前提がつくなら、
もっともだと思いますが。

Azureもそうですが、
草の根開発者の力を集めるためには、
微妙に高い値段設定ですよね。
これだと企業に期待するしかないとおもいますが、
それだけで十分なソフトウェアは出てくるんでしょうか。

とかいう気持ちを勝手にくんでよいなら、
そうだそうだそのとおり、といえますが。
その辺どうなのでしょうか。

# re: Windows Phone 7の開発環境が無料なんて嘘にだまされちゃダメです! 2010/12/07 7:55 はつね

まりもさんが言わんとしていることとほぼいっしょかな。

PCにしても実機にしても開発以外にも使えるのでそこまで無償じゃなきゃとかは全然思っていませんけれど(笑)。

# re: Windows Phone 7の開発環境が無料なんて嘘にだまされちゃダメです! 2010/12/08 14:57 aetos

ちなみにイトーさんの後を継いだ Twitter アカウントはこちらです。
ほとんどつぶやいてませんけど。

@kkwmfm

# re: Windows Phone 7の開発環境が無料なんて嘘にだまされちゃダメです! 2011/07/21 16:10 shio

VSとExpressionは持ってるので、無料ソフトでもと思ったけど、携帯アプリと同じ仕組みになったんですね。
そういえば、携帯アプリは開発者用ダウンロードサイトが用意されていて、そのURLから無料でダウンロードできましたけど。デバッグ登録するとURLを教えてもらえるんで、それを知り合い数人に教えて配っていました。それでもダウンロード費用は全員が負担しますからね、キャリアもサイトも大もうけでしたね。
携帯アプリも開発環境は無料だったと思う。
この話題はもう古いんでしょうね。

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