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# re: RealProxy使えねぇー 2007/01/09 15:01 黒龍

> this経由の参照は生のまま
つDynamicProxy
ソースがあるなら設計＆コーディングルールで回避するほうが早そう…。

> newを捕捉できない
つContextBoundObject

# re: RealProxy使えねぇー 2007/01/09 16:23 シャノン

DynamicProxyってCastleの？
何にせよ、標準のRealProxyは使えねー。

ContextBoundObjectは、多重継承を認めない.NETでは使いにくすぎる印象が。
ContextBoundObjectであるということ自体がAspectだというのに。

# re: RealProxy使えねぇー 2007/01/09 18:22 黒龍

> DynamicProxyってCastleの？
です。
> 何にせよ、標準のRealProxyは使えねー。

用途がみえないんで何ともですがあとからメソッドの動きをどうにかするっていう場合にはAOPは全く役に立ちませんし向きませんね。

# re: RealProxy使えねぇー 2007/01/09 18:28 シャノン

うーん？
そもそも、AOPって「後からメソッドの動きをどうにかする」ことじゃないのん？

# re: RealProxy使えねぇー 2007/01/09 21:11 黒龍

> そもそも、AOPって「後からメソッドの動きをどうにかする」ことじゃないのん？
ソースを失念したのではっきりとしたことは言えないのですがパッチ的な使い方ではなくAOPに向いた設計をすべきということが提唱されていました。
私もこの意見には賛成であくまで処理の事前、事後に処理を挟み込む or 処理をまるまるすげかえるなどの用途に使うのがいいと思います。
パッチ的な用途に用いてしまうと折角実装から分離したAspectが実装と密に結びついてしまうのでオブジェクト指向的な良さをスポイルしてしまうように思います。

# re: RealProxy使えねぇー 2007/01/09 22:48 シャノン

あぁ、なるほど。
確かに俺が「RealProxy使えねー」と判断したのは、黒龍さんの言うところのAOP的ではない処理でした。
でも、目的をそれだけに限定してもやっぱり、Weaving対象のクラスの作りによっては、RealProxyが使えない場合がありますよね。
というか、俺が投げた処理に割と近いシチュエーションで。

# re: RealProxy使えねぇー 2007/01/09 22:54 シャノン

うーむ。

> Weaving対象のクラスの作りによっては、RealProxyが使えない場合がありますよね。

だから、AOPしたいんであれば、被Weavingクラスをそういう作りにするな、っていうことかしら。
それはそれで制限になってしまうなぁ。

> というか、俺が投げた処理に割と近いシチュエーションで。

これ、そんなにひねくれた処理じゃないと思うので。

ちなみにどんなケースでさじを投げたかと言うと、例えばこう。

class A
{
　public B GetB()
　{
　　retuen new B( this );
　}

　public void SomeMethod();
}

class B
{
　private A _a;
　public B( A a )
　{
　　_a = a;
　}

　public Moge()
　{
　　_a.SomeMethod();
　}
}

A a = GetProxiedA();
a.GetB().Moge();

これでAspect対象にならないA.SomeMethodの出来上がり。
実際に俺が遭遇したケースはもーちょっとヒネクレてるけど。

# re: RealProxy使えねぇー 2007/01/10 0:11 黒龍

ある程度の制限は仕方ないと思います。AOPすることも含めて設計＆コーディングしないと^^;

まずい点がいまいち見えないですがInterfaceやVirtualを絡めてうまくいかないかな？？

# re: RealProxy使えねぇー 2007/01/10 9:10 シャノン

> AOPすることも含めて設計＆コーディングしないと^^;

なるほどねぇ。
その点からみると、.NET FrameworkってのはRealProxyやContextBoundObjectを提供しているにもかかわらず、AOP-Friendlyな作りになっていないと言えましょう。
.NET Frameworkに対してProxy被せようとして失敗したのでね。
他人が作った、ソースコードが手に入らないビルド済みバイナリに対してもWeavingできるってのがAOPの利点の一つだと思っていたのだけれど、無条件にYESというわけではないのかもしれないね。

ま、そもそも、RealProxyやContextBoundObjectが当初からAOPを想定して提供されていたかどうかという問題もあるけれど。「プロキシ」とか「コンテキスト」ってのはCOMの概念ですからね。

# re: RealProxy使えねぇー 2007/01/10 10:06 黒龍

> .NET Frameworkに対してProxy被せようとして失敗したのでね。
他人が作った、ソースコードが手に入らないビルド済みバイナリに対してもWeavingできるってのがAOPの利点の一つだと思っていたのだけれど、無条件にYESというわけではないのかもしれないね。
ですね。.Netの場合というかRealProxyの場合はWeavingというよりはインターセプトなので。

> ま、そもそも、RealProxyやContextBoundObjectが当初からAOPを想定して提供されていたかどうかという問題もあるけれど。「プロキシ」とか「コンテキスト」ってのはCOMの概念ですからね。
なるほど。興味深い点です。Essential .NETあたりではAOP的考えとしてRealProxyやContextBoundObjectに触れているので意識はされていたように思います。C#の父アンダースさんは動的ウィービングでのコード汚染はやなのでパーシャルを推奨していましたね。

# RealProxy使えねぇー：２ 2007/01/11 16:49 .COM -どっとこむ-

RealProxy使えねぇー：２

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