Ognacの雑感

# re: Webアプリの方がセンスが磨かれる(?) 2007/09/28 8:44 凪瀬

Webアプリの開発メンバーというレベルで捉えると、
Webアプリの中核部分を作ることのない人の場合、
比較的単純なルーチンワークをこなすだけの人がおり、
非常に簡易なプログラミング能力しかない人もいます。
一人でWebアプリ全体を作れる人は少ない。

システム全体を設計できるレベルの技術者同士を比べた場合、
クラサバのほうが技術者による工夫の余地が大きく
腕の差が現れやすいようにも思います。
反面、Webアプリのように常にプロトコルと折衷する必要がないので
独りよがりな設計にしがちなのかもしれません。

私の感覚ではWebアプリばかりやっていると腕が鈍るという感じ。
この感じ方の差はどこから出てくるのでしょうかね？

# re: Webアプリの方がセンスが磨かれる(?) 2007/09/28 10:36 Chuki

業務でWebアプリを選択する場合、スケールアウトを前提とした規模が大きい案件が多いように思います。全体を見渡す基幹部数名以外は言われたとおりに作るだけになってしまうため、単純作業労働者に近いようなPG多数というような状況になりがちです。

翻って、クラサバ系はあんまりスケールアウトなどを気にしなくても良い程度の規模で選択することが多いため、全体を見渡しながらコーディングしていくことが可能です。

だもんで、若いうちにはクラサバ系の案件で全体感と設計の基礎を磨かせ、うまく成長してくれれば大規模のWeb系の設計までこなせるようになってくれるのがベターかなぁ、なんて思ってます。

＞センスを磨くなら C++がベストだと思うのだが一歩高い位置付けなので、一歩譲るとC#がベターだと思う。
このあたり難しいですね。あの美しさと楽しさを理解できる人はいいのですが、そうでない人には...

プログラマ、っていうと理系で優秀な人！ってイメージを持って育ってきたのに、いざ自分がなってみると３Kの代表で、なんとなく単純作業者みたいになってるなんて、一寸先は闇だ＾＾；

＞私の感覚ではWebアプリばかりやっていると腕が鈍るという感じ。
＞この感じ方の差はどこから出てくるのでしょうかね？
どの工程や役割につくか、というようなことだと思うのですが....。

# re: Webアプリの方がセンスが磨かれる(?) 2007/09/28 10:41 Chuki

↑
当然、ここでいうプログラマってスーパーな人ではなく、良く契約なんかの単価で出てくる「PG」さんとか言うやつです。
＃プログラマって職種を誤解してるよねぇ。ほかに書きようがないもんですかねぇ

# re: Webアプリの方がセンスが磨かれる(?) 2007/09/28 11:27 とっちゃん

単価で出てくるPGはコーダーでしょｗ
あれはプログラマとは違う職種。いまはいっしょくたにされてっけど...orz

# re: Webアプリの方がセンスが磨かれる(?) 2007/09/28 11:48 Chuki

コーダーって書くと、パンチャーと同じような庶務価格になっちゃうでｽ orz
#でも、コーダーですよねぇ＾＾；

# re: Webアプリの方がセンスが磨かれる(?) 2007/09/28 11:49 Mr.T

Mr.Tです、こんにちは。
>単価で出てくるPGはコーダーでしょｗ
え、キーパンチャーでは？www

# re: Webアプリの方がセンスが磨かれる(?) 2007/09/28 11:49 Mr.T

あら、Chukiさんとかぶった

# re: Webアプリの方がセンスが磨かれる(?) 2007/09/28 16:26 Ognac

>一人でWebアプリ全体を作れる人は少ない。
>システム全体を設計できるレベルの技術者同士を比べた場合、
>独りよがりな設計にしがちなのかもしれません。

うーん。私が参加したWebプロジェクトが幸せプロジェクトだったのかも知れません。
Web開発者で ヒヤリング/設計/実装までこなせる人が多かったですね。
一方のクラサバプロジェクトのほうは、コーダー+@ レベルが多いように思います。その環境のもとで記事のカルチャーギャップを感じたわけです。
　みなさんの話を聴いていると、様々で一概にこうだと言える問題ではないですね。

>この感じ方の差はどこから出てくるのでしょうかね？
体験が感じ方の基準になってしまうからでしょうね。もっと幅広く体験談を聴くようにしなければ-> 自分

>スケールアウトを前提とした規模が大きい案件が多いように思います。
>若いうちにはクラサバ系の案件で全体感と設計の基礎を磨かせ、....
そういう切り口の視点がありますね。　歯車になってしまうか全体を認識できるかの差は大きいですね。
現実はそういう長期スパンで人材育成している会社がいくつあるかですね。自力で頑張れる人はほっといても頑張るが、そうでない人をどうするか?
そのあたりは経営者の姿勢になってくるのかなぁ。

>どの工程や役割につくか、というようなことだと思うのですが....。
若いうちは自分では役割を選べないので、運命的な要素が大きいきがします。そう言ってしまうと、若い人の芽を伸ばすも潰すも会社の責任??? ...わかりませんが。

PG/コーダ/パンチャーの定義が人によってばらばらだから話がかみ合わない...と書きかけてたら 凪瀬 さんが上手く纏めてくれてました。参考になります。

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